After Mark Driscoll lobbed his grenade into the cessationist camp quite a few people were upset. Not because he took an opposing stance, but because of some strong misrepresentations of their theological position. Quite frankly, I can understand why many people disagree with the cessationist view that some of the ministry gifts we find in Acts have now ceased. Though I lean in the cessationist direction I can see strong biblical arguments for Driscoll's continuationist position. I have to concede that my sympathies for the cessationist position are fuelled by my many experiences of charismaniacs losing their marbles and doing a lot of colateral damage in the process. I see the biblical arguments for cessationism but I am not yet fully persuaded on those grounds. But when Driscoll comes out and equates cessationism with "worldliness", a denial of the miraculous, and something that stems from atheism, he is completely wrong and at least needs to be taken to task over these outrageous claims.
This has led to increased scrutiny of Mark Driscoll's ministry to try and understand his theological framework. This scrutiny led to Phil Johnson uncovering some video footage from 2008 where Driscoll discusses "visions" that he gets from God. Phil Johnson has responded to this video and I will post that tomorrow. Below I have posted the aforementioned video footage but I must warn you. I find the content of this video to be extrmely disturbing and actually something that leaves a huge question mark hanging over Mark Driscoll's ministry. I wrestled with the issue of whether to post this video but since many of my friends are avid students of Mark Driscoll's teaching I think it necessary to let them see this for themselves. Ok you've been warned!
Go On To Part 6
Go Back To Part 4
Go Back To Part 1
Weekend A La Carte (November 2)
15 hours ago
8 comments:
I think most frustrating in this whole situation is the fact that we have grown men, Godly men, throwing rocks at each other over the internet. It makes me frustrated with all parties involved. These are guys that should be working together to further the Gospel but instead they are too busy taking stabs at each other via blogs.
Ok, so there's disagreement. Act like men and meet up and discuss things in a civil manner rather than taking a poke and name calling over the web. It actually makes me lose respect for all of the people involved (who for the most part I have had great respect).
Mark Driscoll, Phil Johnson and the others should be ashamed of themselves.
Andrew, do you know anything of the history of all of this. People have tried to deal with Driscoll privately in the past to little or no avail. What Driscoll has said, he has said publicly, and as someone who defended Driscoll for a long time I have to state the obvious. He is WAY out of line, a lot of what he said about Cessationism is just plain untrue, and his "revelations" are severly disturbing. Every article I have seen that Phil Johnson has written concerning these things has been a superb and necessary public response which is why I will be posting them.
Mark Driscoll should be flat out on his belly with his face in the dust begging God for mercy for proclaiming this stinking rot boldly exposed by God fearing John MacArthur showing Mark Driscoll’s mishandling of the “Song of Solomon.” It is absolutely disgusting and shocking what he did with God's precious holy Word:
The Rape of Solomon's Song, Part 1
The Rape of Solomon's Song, Part 2
The Rape of Solomon's Song, Part 3
The Rape of Solomon's Song, Part 4
As of yet I see no full-orbed public apology or open, godly repentance from him. Mark Driscoll has zero to say to me, he mishandles God's word too much and he bullys people as well. A Pastor? God help him.
His dreams/visions in that video? Hogwash!!! He's a control freak.
Unless MD is lying (and that would be a different matter - I await evidence for this), I don't see what the problem is, particularly if people are being saved, healed and delivered, in which case we should rejoice rather than criticise.
I feel as though I am sat among a bunch of Pharisees who get so upset that their neat theology is being disturbed that they cannot praise God that He is setting people free.
Mcmurdo, did you watch the video where Driscoll describes his visions? Are you telling me you didn't have a problem with that?
I see dead people.........people dead in their sins.
But seriously...um...I find this somewhat disturbing. I find some of Driscoll's teaching just spot on, and then there is stuff like this. Unless I'm missing something, I find no biblical basis for this type of "discernment gift." I think of Paul's vision in Acts 16 of the man in Macedonia beckoning him to come preach the gospel, but I can't think of any visions of rape, child molestation or physical abuse. The whole thing sets off lots of alarms and red flags for me. It is borderline "look at this gift I have" kinda stuff.
What’s the problem here? It is perfectly proper and scriptural for someone to receive a revelation from the Lord about somebody’s sin.
Nathan received a revelation about David’s adultery with Bathsheba (2Samuel 12:1ff).
Elijah received a revelation about Ahab and Jezebel’s sin against Naboth (1Kings 21:17-19).
Jesus received a revelation about the Samaritan Woman’s promiscuity (John 4:17).
Peter received a revelation about Ananias and Sapphira’s lying (Acts 5:1ff).
Peter made it clear that in the last days (and if these aren't the last days, when are they?), young men would also see visions (Acts 2:17). Perhaps the problem here is that Mark D is not so young these days?
Paul lists prophecy, discernment, words of knowledge among his list of spiritual gifts (1Corinthians 12:8-10) and says that the church should earnestly desire the gifts (14:1). Paul later gives an example of this happening, in which a person’s sins are laid bare in a church setting and they come to repentance as a result (1Corinthians 14:24-25).
So I don’t have a problem really. Are you saying that Mark Driscoll is lying? If he is, then yes - we do have a problem! If not, then if people are being delivered, healed, brought to repentance etc, we should rejoice.
McMurdo, part 8 will answer your question.
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