Today, I am going to post the entirity of my correspondance with Hillsong, or more specifically, Robert Fergusson. I realize that a lot of this has already been posted, but I thought it might be useful to have the entire dialogue and chronology laid out in a single post so the reader can get a clear picture, and also as a tool for others to pressure Hillsong (e-mail them at prayer@hillsong.com). Forgive me if this is too long for you - if you don't want to read through the entire dialogue then you can scroll down to Fergusson's e-mails which are in italics.
For those of you who don't know who Robert Fergusson,here is his profile on the "Hillsong International Leadership College" website:
Robert Fergusson
Cert.IV AWT, PGCE, B.Sc (Hons)
Trainer and Advisor (Pastoral Leadership)
Robert Fergusson is one of the Senior Associate Pastors at Hillsong Church in Sydney, Australia where his primary responsibilities are preaching and teaching in the Bible College. Originally from England, Robert was a minister there for twelve years before he moved to Australia in 1990. He has travelled extensively and has a passion to teach practical life principals. Robert is married with three adult children.
From what I am told, Fergusson is perhaps the most popular and prominent preacher at Hillsong Sydney along with senior pastor Brian Houston. Someone who is recognized for biblical insight. In the light of the glowing endorsements of Fergusson's teaching/preaching you will have to arrive at your own conclusion after reading through this correspondence.
On Wednesday December 30th 2009 I wrote the following mail to Hillsong's prayer@hillsong.com address which is supposed to be for non-Christians with questions:
To whom it may concern,
I recently read through the CD liner notes of your "Hillsong Live - Mighty To Save" CD. In it I found an explanation on how to become a Christian.
Here is what it said:
"Our prayer is that you would discover the Author of Love . . . Jesus. His life and death represent the greatest gift of love the world will ever see . . . a gift for you. All you need to do is accept it . . . a brand new start to a life lived in relationship with God. Meeting God is as simple as praying a prayer . . . asking Jesus to meet you right where you are. If you are not sure that you know God, and that you are going to heaven, then make this your prayer today . . .
Dear Lord Jesus
I need You . . . I need Your grace to forgive me and I need your love to change me. Thank You for your amazing love. Thank You for giving me life and eternity. But above all, thank you for dying on the cross for me.
I accept You as my Lord and Saviour. Now I'm a Christian, which means You live in me.
I belong to You. I will live my life for You and I will love You forever . . . Amen."
Now I am concerned about several things lacking in this presentation including Who God is, defining what sin is, that we must all be judged, and why Christ needed to die on the cross. These all give me great cause for concern with the gospel you are proclaiming. But I want to zero in on one particular issue. On your website you have a statement of "what we believe" which says this:
We believe that in order to receive forgiveness and the 'new birth' we must repent of our sins, believe in the Lord Jesus Christ, and submit to His will for our lives. (http://myhillsong.com/what-we-believe)
Can you please explain to me why repentance is never mentioned in the gospel presentation in the CD's you sell but your website says that "in order to receive forgiveness and the 'new birth' we must repent of our sins"? Can you tell me which one is the correct?
Adding to this I noticed on the back cover of the CD liner notes a quotation of 2 Chronicles 7:14 which says:
if my people who are called by my name humble themselves, and pray and seek my face then I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sin and heal their land.
By checking in my Bible I found this verse to be incomplete and is missing the words in bold print:
if my people who are called by my name humble themselves, and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sin and heal their land.
Can you explain to me why you deleted the line from that verse that speaks specifically about repentance? I hope you agree that it is very serious indeed to add to or delete information from sacred Scripture.
I am very concerned about this. I'm sure you would agree that the stakes are high and it is imperative that we get the Gospel right. Eternal destinies hang in the balance. The Apostle Paul said:
But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed. As we have said before, so now I say again: If anyone is preaching to you a gospel contrary to the one you received, let him be accursed. (Galatians 1:8-9)
I would appreciate your response as to where Hillsong church actually stands on repentance and that you would promptly ammend your website or the CD liner notes that you publish. I am writing to you first to give you opportunity to clarify your position before I discuss this publicly on my blog.
Sincerely
Cameron Buettel
Well Hillsong's 911 emergency hotline sent me an out of office auto reply with another e-mail address - bethany.norton@hillsong.com. So I resent the e-mail to that address but it seems that Bethany was not used to these sort of questions. Finally on Thursday 7th January 2010, 8 days later, Robert Fergusson responded. It would seem my letter had spent several days moving up their theological chain of command to answer my "difficult questions".
Hi Cameron,
Thank you for your recent email and your obvious concern for truth and the preaching of the gospel. I am responding on behalf of Hillsong church as one of the key preachers here.
Let me assure you that at Hillsong church we are as committed to the declaration of truth as you evidently are. As you have seen from our statement of faith our beliefs are those held by the Australian Christian Churches. All of our preaching and publications attempt to reflect those beliefs. For instance, in the example that you have chosen, although we didn’t use the word ‘repent’ on that occasion, we did use the words, ‘change’ and ‘forgive’. We felt that was appropriate at the time and I am sorry if you feel that is inadequate. Nonetheless, we do regularly review all our preaching and publications and have noted your helpful comments. May I suggest you visit our Hillsong church in London, which may allay some of your concerns.
We pray that God continues to bless you and your ministry,
Yours sincerely,
Robert Fergusson.
I wrote back on the following day (Friday the 8th of January 2010):
Dear Robert, I am honored that you would take the time to write to me. I do know of you as an author and seem to recall that you are from the UK. I hope I'm right about that.
I am from Australia (though I now live in Denmark) and my background is in the AOG movement. I am aware that Hillsong cops it's share of criticism - much of which is unfounded. I know that most of the controversy swirls around money and the use of it. Conspiracy theories abound as much as the wild imaginations of their originators. I realize that you probably get asked many "loaded questions" with an agenda bent on discrediting the Hillsong church. I would hope that you would not categorize me among these people but would biblically consider the objections I raise. They pertain to the purity of the Christian Gospel of which I preach both in the pulpit and on the street. And my questions have no grounding in personal credibility but in the authority of Scripture - which the Hillsong website professes: "We believe that the Bible is God's Word. It is accurate, authoritative and applicable to our every day lives". So please, regardless of what you think of my personal credibility, I ask that you give my words merit on the basis of their alignment to Holy Scripture.
I must be clear from the outset that I am very critical of the gospel proclaimed by Hillsong that I have been exposed to in both print and audio form. In my travels I have spoken with members of Hillsong church which has only served to increase my concerns about the gospel that is preached there. Also, a good friend of mine, while filming a reformation documentary in London, bumped into and interviewed some leaders from Hillsong London in which they were unable to clearly articulate the Christian Gospel - this again was more fuel on the fire in prompting me to write. I believe that God made His Gospel knowable for a wretch like me and it is a subject/discussion that does not require top level theologians to discuss at the basic level. I have just completed a series on my blog (www.onceuponacross.blogspot.com) which you are welcome to critique entitled "The Anatomy of the Gospel". Based on Scripture and, to a lesser extent, church history I have asserted that all Gospel proclamations must include:
1. Who God is - His Holiness (Romans 1:18-20)
2. Who man is - sin must be clearly defined in order to show us our sinfulness (Romans 3:10-23)
3. Judgment - heaven and hell - God must judge because He is good, loving, and righteous and we are not (Rev 20:12-15)
4. What Christ has done - the cross and the resurrection - that Christ died to endure God's wrath in the place of sinners and credit sinners with His righteousness - He rose from the dead confirming that He is God and made satisfactory payment for our sins. (Rom 3:24-26)
5. How man must respond - repentance from sin and faith towards Christ (Acts 20:2-21)
Now I could have targetted any one of those five points as the presentation in the CD liner notes was sadly lacking on all five. But I zeroed in on repentance as it is clearly affirmed by Hillsong's own doctrine statement.
I noticed on the back cover of the CD liner notes a quotation of 2 Chronicles 7:14 which says:
if my people who are called by my name humble themselves, and pray and seek my face then I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sin and heal their land.
By checking in my Bible I found this verse to be incomplete and is missing the words highlighted in bold:
if my people who are called by my name humble themselves, and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sin and heal their land.
Can you explain to me why you deleted the line from that verse that speaks specifically about repentance? I hope you agree that it is very serious indeed to add to or delete information from sacred Scripture.
Robert, there is no excuse for taking a scalpel to Scripture like this. It is bad enough when people quote verses out of context. How much worse to delete words out of a verse and print it as if that is what 2 Chronicles 7:14 says. The text does not even contain a ... to show that the verse has been abbreviated. I don't blame you for this and realize that you cannot possibly know everything that goes on in a ministry as large as Hillsong. But neither can I see how you could possibly defend this as a professing Christian preacher.
And there is no way that the words "change" and "forgive" (as found in the CD liner notes "prayer") remotely resemble repentance from sin in their context. Please read it again remembering that the faith statement says that people "must repent of sin" in order to receive forgiveness. Repentance is never mentioned and neither is sin. Robert, please take this seriously as a steward of the Gospel. If people must repent of their sin in order to receive forgiveness but the CDs that are sold say nothing that remotely resembles that they are giving false assurance. Please, I beg you, listen to your conscience. Please change your literature to reflect this truth and make sure that your preaching is consistent with this.
The Gospel is not about happiness but righteousness. People must come to Christ seeing their unrighteousness and need for righteousness found only in Christ's atoning sacrifice. A failure to talk about sin and the need to repent from that sin is short changing the glorious Gospel at its foundational level.
Sincerely
Cameron Buettel
Robert Fergusson replied again the same day (Friday 8th of January 2010):
Hi Cameron,
Thank you for your email and, once again, thank you for your observations. To be honest, I think it would be unprofitable for us to engage in a long debate on the nature of the gospel. It would also be ungracious for either of us to suggest that we believe the Bible, repentance or the gospel more than the other. We are both endeavoring, by the grace of God, to serve the Lord Jesus Christ and we should pray for and support one another in that endeavor.
God bless,
Robert Fergusson.
I responded again on the same day (Friday 8th January 2010):
Now Robert, be reasonable. They are fair questions that I am asking. How can you even suggest that repentance from sin is discussed in the Gospel presentation found in the CD? I was hopeful you would address the issue - not pretend it doesn't exist! I am not suggesting I believe the Gospel more than you - I am saying that if you do believe the Gospel then you will put a stop to the false one being presented on behalf of Hillsong. Doesn't it concern you at all that Hillsong propogates information telling people to pray this prayer and then you are a child of God with no call to repentance from sin. No mention of the cross. No mention of our guilt. Please tell me this is of concern to you as a preacher of the Gospel?
Cameron
So there you have it. What do you think about the theological guardians of the Hillsong empire?
Go On To Part 5
Go Back To Part 3
Go Back To Part 1
We Call It Unction
2 hours ago


30 comments:
Excellent post. You certainly have covered all of the truth of accepting Christ. It is sad that salvation is being watered down to a two second prayer. And to leave off repentance and complete turning away from sin is simply to change the Gospel No one wants to hear about the cross and the cost of being a disciple of Jesus Christ. Yet without that knowledge, there can be no victory!
I stumbled across this blog via a link from Group Sects. Interesting reading.
I went with a friend from church some years ago to check out an evening service at Riverview (Western Australias Hillsong equiv). During the altar call "prayer" it was said "if you want to be a part of the family here - raise your hand and God says it's a done deal"!
I also note with interest (for want of a better word) how in Roberts email reply, he says their statement of faith aligns with other churches...and they "attempt" to reflect THOSE beliefs in publications and preaching...
When the word takes second place, the Word will also take second place and this sort of thing is all we can expect to see.
Though you may end up going no further with Mr Fergusson in this issue (his sad call), your determination and insistance for the truth is inspiring and appreciated.
Good fill someone in on and this post helped me alot in my college assignement. Thanks you for your information.
I completely agree with what Robert Fergusson is saying. "Change" and "forgiveness" IS what repentance is! I don't really see the fruit in these posts. But sadly i'm sure you will generate a lot traffic on these stories because christians love to read this sort of thing.
Anonymous, do you really believe that that presentation talked about repenting from sin? Biblical repentance is a turning away from sin. I am staggered that you see no inconsistency between Hillsong's faith statement and their gospel presentation. This is not hair splitting - it pertains to the eternal welfare of souls.
Furthermore, what do you think about what they did to 2 Chronicles 7:14. Please tell me you have a problem with that.
anonymous said: "Change" and "forgiveness" IS what repentance is!
Not quite friend, true repentance is brought on by a brokenness and heart rending realization of what we have done. A man can make a external change and make great efforts at living what appears to be a Christian life, but still be every bit of a devil inside. You can't put to death the old man with gum drops and cotton candy.
What am I forgiven of? What did I do to need forgivness?
If I don't know the weightiness of what I have done, and if I don't see the hopelessness of all that is of my human nature, I would have simply made an intellectual ascent to seek God in a way that is self gratifying.
When the Holy Spirit first began to minister to me, He did not minister to me with fluffiness saying things like:
"My life and death represent the greatest gift of love the world will ever see . . . a gift for you. All you need to do is accept it . . . a brand new start to a life lived in relationship with Me. Meeting Me is as simple as praying a prayer."
As if conversion is something so uninvolved and superficial. This is an utterly inadequate presentation of the Gospel, and to quote MacArthur: "This is a gospel that will lead to apostasy"
The Lord broke me in my inner most being so that I cried out for mercy. I was brought to nothing so I could receive everything in Him.
Look at GENUINE conversions and revivals throughout history and you will not see such shallow dribble drabble being passed off as the Christian experience. Men and Women were destroyed by conviction and powerfully reborn in the Spirit of God!
This is nearly non-existent today and it is because people are focusing their efforts on men instead of on God. They're preaching watered down kool-aid instead of speaking the full counsel of God's Word.
When God does a work it rattles a man at his very core. It's not like a message upon the flesh! It pierces to the heart and throws down strongholds! It rattles foundations! It wrecks our own life and aspirations and makes Christ our Life and only refuge!
I want to cry! The Modern church is nothing but a prostitute selling herself to the world! Words cannot convey the grief in my heart! God help us!
I found this bit from Robert Fergusson on the Hillsong website under the Creative section.
Since it deals explicitly with previous criticism about inconsistency between statement of faith and presentation in musical production, it might be interesting:
http://hillsong.com/blogs/creative/2008/12/20/creed-in-songwriting/
also interesting might be:
http://hillsong.com/blogs/creative/2008/12/20/4-commendable-attributes-of-a-songwriter/
that because in the second part, when he speaks about creativity and flexibility it seemingly tends to stress loyalty if not obedience to the local church ("there is a favor on this house") and their authorities.
Well your article helped me very much in my college assignment. Hats afar to you dispatch, intention look forward in behalf of more interrelated articles without delay as its united of my favourite issue to read.
Maybe you should be spending your time reading about
grace' and forgiveness. Condemnation does NOT bring the lost to Christ, MERCY and LOVE does. Ever heard of redemption. "It is the GOODNESS of God that brings men to repentance." HIS LOVE an GENTLENESS and MERCY. You are so SIN conscious, you are forgetting why CHRIST came!! He paid the price to wipe us clean AND REMEMBER our SINS NO MORE. This Love is what turns people TO God, and brings about repentance.
Hi
Very nice and intrestingss story.
Dear Cameron,
I believe that the way you are putting your words is not constructive to God kingdom.
Although I have to believe that you are trying to achieve something from God, I don't think it's true, you can't be right in somethings as they can be right in some too.
First love then and try to love, instead off keep a battle that is not good for this world. We don't need more dissention, we need our God love and salvation!
It's not YOU that will change the world being sarcastic.
With love,
Paulo Yoo
Dear Cameron,
I believe that the way you are putting your words is not constructive to God kingdom.
Although I have to believe that you are trying to achieve something from God, I don't think it's true, you can't be right in somethings as they can be right in some too.
First love then and try to love, instead off keep a battle that is not good for this world. We don't need more dissention, we need our God love and salvation!
It's not YOU that will change the world being sarcastic.
With love,
Paulo Yoo
It sounds to me like you are an argumentative person who is trying to discredit a man and a church that has global impact for the kingdom of God.
He clearly said thank you for your concern and email and that they would review their material but that wasn't good enough for you. Your reason behind your questions and "concern" is so that you can use it for your advantage and gain NOT to come to any truth! If you were concerned for truth I don't think you would have posted this ridiculous dialogue that obviously not many people care about seeing as how I am the 15th comment.
He said "We are both endeavoring, by the grace of God, to serve the Lord Jesus Christ and we should pray for and support one another in that endeavor." Honestly, I think any person in their right mind can see YOUR motivation!
I find it sad when a person who claims to love God and His word sees it as his role to try and discredit fellow believers who are humbly walking out their journey with God and actually impacting many lives for the good. I have heard Robert speak many times and have found him to be passionate about God's word and very clear in his love and respect for the word of God. I think,as many others have already said, that Robert has demonstrated the heart of God so much more than the author of this blog, I know who's teaching I would rather learn from.
They will know us by our fruits and our love for one another :-)
Thank you Robert Fergusson, your teaching has revealed to me the awesomeness of God and helped me to walk in the true freedom that Jesus payed so dearly for. God bless you :-)
PA! Typo above! I should've said 'they'll know Him by our love for one another'! :-)
Okay, dude. If you really cared about the gospel message, you would be out sharing it with people, not writing long blogs about how you don't like the wording on a hillsong cover. You're only hurting the body of Christ. Will all due respect, go out and make a POSITIVE difference for the kingdom, and stop this negative hair splitting.
Okay dude. If you really cared about the gospel message you are trying to defend, you would be out sharing it with people, instead of writing log blogs criticizing Hillsong covers. You are only hurting the body of Christ. With all due respect, stop the negative hair splitting, and go out and make a positive impact for God's kingdom.
Dear anonymous, how do you know that I don't share the Gospel with people? I hope you're not judging me! Look up my name on YouTube and you might be surprised at the number of evangelism videos you will find. It imprecisely because I am an active witness that I spoke out about this. And with all due respect, perverting the purity of the Gospel and altering Bible verses is far more serious than "hair splitting".
But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed. As we have said before, so now I say again: If anyone is preaching to you a gospel contrary to the one you received, let him be accursed. (Galatians 1:8-9)
I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book, and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God will take away his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book. (Revelation 22:18-19).
The only ones being "hurt" here are a bunch of biblically illiterate people who can't distinguish the difference between false teaching and the true biblical gospel.
Sad really.
God bless you Cameron, and don't be dissuaded by the illogical arguments from anonymous repliers and those spouting foolish unbiblical drivel.
would God Want Quarrel ? or Unity
Would God Want Codemnation ? or Encouragement ?, Would God want Criticizing ? or Correction ?, Would God want correct person ? or humble person ?
I can agree with part of your article , but would God want us to Criticize other church ? or correct, and encourage other church to grow, and stand with encouraged heart. Would God Want us to talk in humble way ? or in the form of quarelling ?, Would God want Fights, or Quarellings between His 2 lovely Son ? or Peace and Unity that made with His Love. No one can be perfect about bible accept God, Correcting, and Rebuking, or Discussing is helpful in knowing God more, but attacking , Judging, Criticizing each other, will never be helpful in building God's kingdom..
Please.. I hope God to give you understanding about 'Family' in Christ...
If Hillsong Church Was really False Church... It would not have good fruit , for it is written
"No good tree bears bad fruit, nor does a bad tree bear good fruit"
(Luke 6:43 NIV)
"Make a tree good and its fruit will be good, or make a tree bad and its fruit will be bad, for a tree is recognized by its fruit. "
(Matthew 12:33 NIV)
Please move forward together, rather than beating, and biting each other...
Apologize for strong, and offensive comment, but I only can write short in this comment... so... Forgive me Please..^^
No wonder Hillsong is so big.
@Chan
As brothers and sisters in Christ, we ought to support and encourage one another, but the Bible also teach us to bring a brother back if he is in sin. (which I believe Cameron is trying to do here, but by smooth talk Robert have refused to listen)
Hillsong theology IS NOT sound biblical theology, and they are leading thousands of people astray and straight to hell by preaching to them a prosperity gospel that is not a gospel at all. Many of them will die and fulfill what our Lord Jesus Christ said in Matthews 7:21-
23 about true and false disciples
21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ 23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’
Chan, study 1 John chapter by chapter and you will be surprised at what a true Jesus's disciple is all about. The moment you ask people to pray the prayer and giving people easy and non-offensive gospel materials, you lost the power of the word.
Cameron, it was good to know your correspondence with Robert. Keep up your good work.
Interesting...
There is a lack of scripture reference from those who disagree with the blogger. I hope you all are not relying on subjective feelings for your statements.
I also agree with the notion that many people do misquote scripture.
Ex. Romans 10:13.
People will think that means just calling on the name of the Lord will bring salvation. That's not correct. Instead, people who are calling the name of the Lord are already saved because their faith/repentance is shown through their confession in a society where anyone who calls anyone Lord other than Caesar was killed.
Lots of scipture verses are improperly quoted to support some unbiblical form of grace, peace and unity.
What good are numbers and buildings if there is no biblically correct gospel.
God gives people over to their desires. Churches that preach prosperity and happiness in the temporal state are there for the blessings earned from pleasing works. Church of Tares.
FROM HILLSONGS WEBSITE
We believe that in order to receive forgiveness and the 'new birth' we must REPENT OF OUR SINS, believe in the Lord Jesus Christ, and submit to His will for our lives.
I put "REPENT OF OUR SINS" in caps for emphasis.
http://myhillsong.com/what-we-believe
Anonymous, I'm not sure why you quote that? Are you using it in agreement with me or in agreement with Hillsong. I quote the very same part of their doctrine statement in the blog post as proof of tha blatant contradiction between Hillsong's official doctrine statement and the gospel they present through their many various mediums ie pulpit, music, videos, books etc.
Cameron, All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness.
2Tim 3:16
So keep on preachin brother, you are dead on with your observations about hillsong, why would anyone remove a piece of scripture knowing full well the curse God said would be on their heads for doing it. And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book Rev 22:19.
The fact that they took that out of the Bible verse puts up a huge red flag on their ministry.
God bless you and give you strength.
Mark
And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book Rev 22:19.
The tampering with Holy Scripture to make it fit their agenda is all I need to see to know something smells fishy.
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness
2Tim3:16
Pointing out their error is not attacking them, it is trying to admonish them to turn from their error and align themselves with the truth, so keep up the good work Cameron.
In Christ
Mark
The amount of time you people have spent on this article, specifically Cameron Buettel. Worries me. You could have wrote this article in two ways. Observation, or "bashing". And its obvious that you chose the "bashing". You could of had this Conversation and wrestled with Roberts response or lack of correct words but you didnt. You did not just wrestle with them. You planted un-healthy thoughts in peoples heads. Just because you saw a CD Liner that was published by Hillsong Church that "I agree" was sugar coated and possibly said theologically incorrect. Does not mean you tell the world the negativities of one of the most influential churches in the world. Dont give the enemy what he wants. Try to have your opinion personal and take it God. And see what he does with it. Many blessings.
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