Rick Warren is a big time "tweeter" and uses this forum to hand out endless thoughts of sage advice. Just recently he tweeted:
If you need ideas for Christmas sermons, I've got 30 years of them to share thru Saddleback Resources http://bit.ly/c0V0dI
The web link he gives is to a place where people can buy his sermons. Sorry that I was a bit late on sharing this but you can always avail yourself of this tweet and get in early for next Christmas . . .
Anyway, back to Warren's sermon at last years Desiring God conference.
The following commentary corresponds to the following video from 7:45 to 13:55
I am amazed that Rick Warren has studied this subject for 33 years. Especially when it has produced a big pile of man centered advice on how to fix our lives and the conclusion that the mind is the believers greatest asset. Actually, when I say believer I am assuming that is what Warren means because it is hard to find him ever differentiating between believers and unbelievers - which is a MAJOR problem in his book "Purpose Driven Life" where biblical covenants are applied without this differentiation. We'll probably get to that issue later on . . .
Here it is, eight minutes in and we have our first "six principles" that all pastors "must teach" their congregations (he's also going to lecture them about the necessity of humility, yes it's coming).
Principle 1: Don't believe everything you think
Perhaps Warren should take his own advice on this one when he uses terms such as "you need to hear my sermon" and "you must teach these six principles". Don't believe everything you think! I think I had that principle nailed when I was six and hit a schoolyard full of wise guys. Warren is sitting there lecturing an audience that is predominantly Calvinistic on this point. Calvinism is usually defined in the five point acronym "TULIP" (though it is much broader than this). And what does the T stand for - total depravity. Perhaps if Warren took counsel from some of these reformed guys he is lecturing here, he might start substituting his self esteem/self help pop psychology with instruction on man's total depravity. If you know you are depraved then "don't believe everything you think" becomes a big no-brainer! The fact that Warren thinks this is so important to teach may well be a reflection of the biblical literacy of his own congregation - the one he shepherds! Furthermore, if Warren really understood human depravity, then he would probably spend a lot more of his pulpit time offering Christ centered solutions instead of a big list of things we need to do.
Warren does use this principle to touch on the subject of our depravity but it becomes the supporting point when it should be the main point. Also, when he talks about sin it reminds me of diet coke. A lightweight version of the real thing and with a bad aftertaste of lameness. We can only hope that he proclaims the sinfulness of sin with far greater force in his own congregation although this is not a usual "felt need" for a pagan.
I just can't believe that John Piper, who authored the immensely profound "Desiring God", would invite this guy. Reformed pastors actually paid to hear this . . . more to come . . .
Go On To Part 4
Go Back To Part 2
Go Back To Part 1
It Is We Who Must Be Bent
13 hours ago
5 comments:
I have not watched the Warren video linked to in your post. But want to comment on your critique.
The first thing I notice is that you are agreeing with Warren on Principe 1:
'I think I had that principle nailed when I was six'.
'If you know you are depraved then "don't believe everything you think" becomes a big no-brainer!'
On it's own (out of context with Warren or anything else) I think 'don't believe everything you think' is a good principle. I also think we shouldn't believe everything we hear or read.
We must go to the Bible and see if what we think/hear/read lines up. I'm learning the hard way how true this is.
"Warren does use this principle to touch on the subject of our depravity". That is good, because I think we would agree that the Bible says we are depraved.
..."but it becomes the supporting point when it should be the main point." Understanding that we are depraved is essential - yes, but his point, in this particular case is: "Don't believe everything you think".
I'm not a Warren supporter, but just my opinion on this post.
Cameron, are you saying that 'principle 1' is not something that Warren needs to be saying to those at the Desiring God conference? If so, you are probably right.
From reading your blog I would have to say that one of the things I've learnt is how important it is to have sound doctrine and theology (may we never let that turn into pride in our doctrine and theology - yes?) and to call out unsound doctrine and theology. Thanks and all glory to God.
Cheers,
Glen Richards
Comment #2:
"Furthermore, if Warren really understood human depravity, then he would probably spend a lot more of his pulpit time offering Christ centered solutions instead of a big list of things we need to do".
One question I've got for you Cameron. You are focused on salvation being the message from the pulpit. But what do you tell people once they are saved?
Perhaps I'm missing your point. But everything I read on your blog seems to be centered around salvation (the Gospel), which is good because it's so important. But surely a pastor should also be feeding the flock (with generous amounts of expository Bible study!)
Perhaps I'm missing your thesis because I'm focusing on one blog post.
Cheers,
Glen
Glen Cameron was stating that...
Perhaps if Warren took counsel from some of these reformed guys he is lecturing here, he might start substituting his self esteem/self help pop psychology with instruction on man's total depravity. If you know you are depraved then "don't believe everything you think" becomes a big no-brainer
The fact that Warren thinks this is so important to teach may well be a reflection of the biblical literacy of his own congregation - the one he shepherds! Furthermore, if Warren really understood human depravity, then he would probably spend a lot more of his pulpit time offering Christ centered solutions instead of a big list of things we need to do.
Basically Rick warren does not understand the gospel and does not like it. And what he teaches is more for a broder audiences of other faiths. Rick warren is really just teaching another jesus and another gospel.
Cameron can tell you more about Warren views and what he belives in and this will help you understand why warrenes teaches in a certain way.
And to the other question have a read under cameron title the bottom line and it tells you what His blogs is all about!
If you want more on Biblical teachings go to John macarthur, Albert Molher or John piper. And you will get alot of those teachings. :)
Hi Anonymous,
Thanks. Yeah, I guess I knew what Cameron was getting at (I even alluded to it in my first comment). So I've been wondering what my reaction was to.
I've just finished reading Cameron's whole blog, including comments. I've found it really helpful. It's really challenged and even convicted me. (all glory to God.)
Cameron's tone has come across really respectful when bringing up the issues he has. E.g., letters to Hillsong, and the way he addresses people who comment.
But after finishing going through the whole blog, and then really reading this latest entry, it struck me that, perhaps(!), the attack on Warren wasn't as foundered in this particular case.
What I mean to say is, by all means call out something bad that needs to be brought to the attention of the body of Christ. But be very clear on what you are attacking and why. In this case, it does not come across like that.
A good example is the Rob Bell case. Cameron was specifically critiquing the bad teaching in the Dust Nooma.
In the Hillsong case, Cameron was critiquing the Gospel blurb and shocking omission of important words in a Bible verse in a CD insert.
I appreciate that this does not rule out general/overview critiquing of ministries, but perhaps it's better to do that from the other way around. I.e., express the general problems with a ministry and then list the supporting reasons why.
Of course, I could have been completely wrong to critique Cameron's critique of Warren. It could have been the sissy in me not willing to stand up and agree!
There is a lot about me that needs to hear people boldly defending the truth. And to learn to be bold in that too.
Cameron, thanks for blogging!
Cheers,
Glen
PS My comment asking for what Cameron feels should be taught post salvation was probably a bit of a reaction to me focusing on these issues so intently (and striving for some balance). I appreciate that Cameron has a focus on these subjects for a reason. So, question withdrawn :) Anonymous, I am looking forward to reading some of the authors you (and Cameron) recommend. Cheers, Glen
Hi glen thanks for your gracious comments on cameron. :)
Just for you to know Rick warren is a terrible heretic but lots love him cause of how broad and wide he reaches his audiences they are a few research sites that shows you why. He also goes hand in hand with the New age.
Cameron has done alot of critiquing on why Rick Warren is such a heretic as you know. The latest is just really about his teachings at the conference. He did it so everyone reading this blog can be warned that Rick warren is not out to help you understand the Bible but to sell his pop cultural view to people listening to him and get more followers.
If you want to read what Cameron recommends go to the resource section.
http://onceuponacross.blogspot.com/2010/05/recommended-books.html
Listen to John MacArthur for some heavy theology. Or listen to sermon and books by John Piper. :)
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