Wednesday, May 19, 2010

More Correspondance Concerning Rob Bell (Part 2)

My Rob Bell Exposed video on youtube is still causing quite a stir. If only the hordes of Rob Bell groupies were as zealous about defending the Gospel as they are about defending Rob Bell. I regularly get slanderous and hateful mail from emergents who are outraged that I would expose their heretical guru as a fraud to Christianity.

I thought it would be worthwhile to post some more correspondance today. This time it is with a youth pastor who is studying for his Masters in Divinity and Theology. As with my previous post I have inserted my responses in bold.

Dear Cameron

I am a Youth Pastor in XXXXX, Michigan. I am also in school to get my masters of Divinity and Theology. One of the kids in my Youth Group brought to my attention a video that you did on Rob Bell's video called Dust. After watching the video i was disappointed and disturbed for several reasons. First the main reason that i am disturbed is because you as being a fellow believer in the Lord, have stood up in front of the mass and torn down another brother in Christ.

Based on the gospel Rob Bell preaches I don't consider this tearing down a brother. If Rob Bell is born again (because I cannot judge his heart) it certainly doesn't come across based on the content of his message.

You stood before another gathering of believers and used it to preach an agenda. If you wanted to preach the message about Peter having faith in God and God alone to walk on water you could have done that without showing the video of Rob Bell. By using Rob Bell you have pushed your own agenda into a sermon.

The question is not whether anyone has an agenda, it is which one of us has the right agenda. Jesus gave us all an agenda otherwise known as the Great commission and it is the reason why I witness and preach. In fact it is what I use most of my spare time doing. If you are interested to see how I witness and preach you will find plenty of other videos on youtube of me doing that.

I know you claim that you are exposing humanism but that is not what you are doing.

How so? I think it's pretty straight forward, you don't need to be a rocket scientist to work it out. Rob Bell is explicitly teaching that God has faith in man which is a blatant contradiction of the doctrine of human depravity.

I found it odd that you talked about knowing the contextual place of the word that you are reading so you give the background to the verse, but you do not show the whole video. So you take a part of the video and only show that section and not the rest.

I only had 10 minutes all up from my senior pastor. I would have loved to show the whole video although even if I did then you'd probably complain about breach of copyright. I have had mail from members of Bell's church, some of which accuse me of breaching copyright and others accusing me for not showing the entire video. By showing a portion of the Dust video I did what was legal to do within copyright law which describes it as "citing a work for commentary". Many people and all of the youth had already seen the video in it's entirity anyway. But I did spend many hours checking my context and I remain convinced it was sound, and I did invite biblical criticism from others which is why I am happy to hear from you (though I'd prefer if you spent more time reasoning from the Scriptures).

From there you twist the words to meet an agenda that you already had planned.

Please explain to me how quoting someone qualifies as twisting their words????

You changed the point that Rob Bell was trying to make.

I was actually totally focussed on Rob Bell's major point. My closing remarks were actually in response to Rob Bell's major point in the video - "that God has faith in us". This idea has no biblical basis. It is also actually a denial of God's omniscience (all knowing), and omnipresence (all seeing) because Hebrews 11:1 defines faith as "the substance of things hoped for and the evidence of things unseen". You can only hope in things you don't know about and for things to be unseen would require God to not be omnipresent. It is a very big deal as it is a radical redefining of the character and nature of God. God does not have faith - He is the object of faith. The whole reformation was built upon this truth.

The point he is making is just like when the Bible talks about with we were to have faith the size of a mustard seed we could move a mountain. The point here and that Rob is making is that we know we can do this, if we had the faith, but we do not believe enough in ourselves to believe that God will do this for us.

Find me one verse in the Bible that says we should believe in ourselves. I can assure you that I can find many that say the opposite some of which were quoted in my presentation.

We do not want to look at our selves has holy vessels for God, so we doubt our own capability no matter what God can do. We believe God can do it, but we believe it can't be done through us. We lack faith that it is possible for these things and these works to be done through us.

But he said to me, "My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness." Therefore I will boast all the more gladly of my weaknesses, so that the power of Christ may rest upon me (2 Corinthians 12:9).

I do not agree with Rob Bell all the time, but I believe it is wrong for another pastor to tear down the work of another pastor. It is not for you to judge, or call Rob Bell a false preacher, by what you have said in your video makes it look like you feel Rob is a false preacher.

The key problem with your sentence here are the two words "I believe". This is not about what you believe but what the Scripture actually says. Romans 16:17 tells us to "mark" those who teach doctrine contrary to what we learn in Scripture. Ephesians 5:11 tells us to expose the works of darkness. Galatians 1:8-9 pronounces damnation on anyone who preaches any other gospel than the one preached in Scripture. So the question is not whether I should be doing this as a shepherd (and remember that shepherds are supposed to feed sheep and protect them from wolves), but whether I am telling the truth and handling Scripture correctly - both subjects that you never delved into.

Once again, the question is not whether I should call him a false teacher but whether he is a false teacher. I gave a biblical critique of the content of Rob Bell's teaching and it would be nice if you could extend me the same courtesy.

Christianity is divided enough, and no divided team ever works to its full potential.

It is false teachers that cause division - not those who expose them. "Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them" (Romans 16:17).

What you preach holds an impact and that impact will be judged, and judged by God alone. It disappointed me greatly that preacher would take a shot at another Christian.

I wouldn't take a shot at another Christian. Rob Bell is a universalist. That's not Christianity last time I checked.

In Christ
(Name withheld)

Go Back To Part 1


Matthias said...

You know what your problem is Cameron ,you have broken unity .Yes that 's the latest fad-no spirit of criticism is allowed. I noted that my church has a partnership statement that people sign which includes maintaining the unity of the church community. Um- so what happens if one preaches 'another gospel'> grin and bear it? sin and wear it? or stand up and speak in Christian Grace and point out the error!!

truth mission said...

Thanks Cameron for clearly and biblically refuting false teachings and teachers. I have watched a couple of Bells videos and I believe they don't just contain some false doctrine but are actually designed (it seems) to destroy biblical faith. Thanks for embracing the difficult task of contending for the faith

Bryan Dunham said...

"The he addressed the Sanhedrin: 'Men of Israel, consider carefully what you intend to do to these men. Some time ago Theudas appeared, claiming to be somebody, and about four hundred men rallied to him. He was killed, all his followers were dispersed, and it all came to nothing. After him, Judas the Galilean appeared in the days of the census and led a band of people in revolt. He too was killed and all his followers were scattered. Therefore, in the present case I advise you: Leave these men alone! Let them go! For if their purpose or activity is of human origin, it will fail. But if it is from God, you will not be able to stop these men; you will only find yourselves fighting against God.'"

Cameron Buettel said...

Bryan, thanks for taking the time to comment. I would like to draw a few things to your attention regarding the verses from Acts chapter 5 which you quote.

1. Acts is an historical narrative recounting events and things people said in the early church. Not everything written is a command of God. Sometimes evil people are quoted for the biblical record. For example, when they drew lots to decide on who would be the new twelfth Apostle - this does not mean that what they did was right, it is just documenting what they did. The verses you quote are something said by Gamaliel, a leader of the pharisees and someone who was not a Christian. It is pragmatic advice and not godly counsel. It is in the book of Acts as a part of recounting the events surrounding the persecution of the disciples.

2. In Romans 16:17 Paul tells the believers there to "mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them". Paul tells the believers at Ephesus to "take no part in the unfruitful works of darkness, but instead expose them" (Ephesians 5:11). And Paul pronounces damnation on anyone who preaches any other gospel than the one he was preaching (Galatians 1:8-9).

3. Shepherds aren't called to ignore wolves. They are called to feed sheep and protect them from wolves. If there was a lot less passivity from pastors in this day and a lot more vigilence in "contending for the once for all delivered faith" (Jude 1:3), false teaching would not thrive like it does in the current climate.

Anonymous said...

It's anti-Christian to call a Druidic Buddhist Rabbi a "Druidic Buddhist Rabbi" ???

Eve said...

Amen! Cameron I saw your video after listening to the "Dust" sermon on youtube. I felt it only right to hear what the man was saying when one of my congregation asked if I had seen one of his videos. He is an easy listen. he talks about Jeiwsh live in Jesus' day. He does not get it all right, but to someone who has no knowledge of these things may well be captivated. His teaching on the tallit sounds so plausible, but it was not even invented as a prayer shawl until the middle ages.

I digress. Riding on the back of this "insight" into first century culture comes such awful heresy. The Bible makes it clear we can do nothing of ourselves, not even have the faith to believe:

"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
Eph 2:8-10 (KJV)"

His teaching is dangerous. People accepting it are in eternal danger. We should not keep quiet just to spare a false teacher's feelings. Thank you for your courage.