tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7670425954609557512.post2435265768820997475..comments2023-09-02T07:59:55.010-07:00Comments on The Bottom Line: NT Wright v The Gospel (Part 3)Cameron Buettelhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13217501740084187739noreply@blogger.comBlogger3125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7670425954609557512.post-72851385323146684092010-07-28T05:49:05.944-07:002010-07-28T05:49:05.944-07:00Gandalf, check my latest post and keep watching fo...Gandalf, check my latest post and keep watching for more to come on this discussion. I welcome your responses under the posts I will be making in this current series (which I have named after you).Cameron Buettelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13217501740084187739noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7670425954609557512.post-16954291540189496582010-07-28T01:32:40.332-07:002010-07-28T01:32:40.332-07:00Hi Cameron,
having read your series about N.T. Wr...Hi Cameron,<br /><br />having read your series about N.T. Wright (and other posts about him as well) I must say that I still think some of your conclusions are at least out of scope maybe misjudging Wright.<br /><br />Here my arguments for that (maybe I posted some of this earlier but I want to make it as a summary here):<br /><br />First: Theories about how the atonement works (including PSA with all its content) are not the atonement or belief in the atonement itself. Therefore what Christians must believe in is the atonement of their sins through death and resurrection of Christ whereas ideas on how this works are secondary to this (In C.S: Lewis book Mere Christianity there is a discussion about this issue which I find very convincing). <br />Notably much of the real discussion about the atonement comes from liberals/progressives who openly dismiss that Christ's death had anything to do with human sins and human redemption (Maybe the name of the German protestant pastor Burkhard Müller is known to you for causing some stir here for saying such things).<br /><br />Discussions about how this works are probably interesting for theologians but error on how it works does not amount to something you quoted McArthur for (that without imputed righteousness no salvation is possible).<br /><br />You know probably that Eastern Orthodox christians as one example do not believe (according to their churches doctrine) in PSA, imputation etc. are they all damned?<br /><br />Second: You repeatedly note that certain concepts and issues are missing in Wright's books or are presented in sketchy or ambiguous manner (individual sin, hell etc.).<br /><br />Have you read "Surprised by Hope"? I did not find you quoting that in your posts.<br />In that book I found both explanation for his lack of mentioning certain things in other booke in detail, namely, that he likes to view all things as "big picture" where God wants to redeeem and bring back to right the whole cosmos (with the fate of individuals just being part of it, like in a puzzle consisting of numerous pieces but all belonging to the same story).<br />However, in the same book he really gives explanations for questions like individual sin (includng an explanation of the word hamartia), final judgment and hell.<br />You probably will object to his view that hell isn't like a torture chamber in the midst of Gods kingdom and that he very much follows a middle ground between traditional teaching and a view that sees the lost ones simply becoming what they desire/practise (a grumble instead of a grumbling man or woman is an example for this from "The great Divorce") and hence being at some point no longer humans in Gods image. But I think you'll have to admit that he teaches final judgment with two outcomes, completely dismisses universalism and that God really cares for righteousness and is not laissez-faire with sin on an individual level.<br /><br />Third: I generally think the amount of flame and vitriol in this debate goes beyond its purpose. People on both sides should handle it more in a manner like the one you advised in your post about the Calvinism vs. Arminianism debate, otherwise we would only deserve the laughter of the Spongs, Borgs, Bells and McLarens in this world for our quarreling.gandalfnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7670425954609557512.post-91618238290397965992010-05-19T01:57:37.274-07:002010-05-19T01:57:37.274-07:00NT Wright thrives in a climate where he is given t...NT Wright thrives in a climate where he is given the benfit of the doubt for his vagueness and amiguity. I cannot think of one faithful minister of the Christian Gospel that is not explicitly clear about the fundamental truths of Christianity. The doctrine of justification would be one of those fundamental truths.Cameron Buettelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13217501740084187739noreply@blogger.com